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aoe
Se A penne:
TO ean
aren
te
taneemreccem sacraments ANA AE tS
242
Bar, aud the members of the other professions, assembie on the
first day of the next Session of Parliament. W here shall they
meet? In the Metropolitan Catholic Church of Dublin, that no-
ble building which corresponds with the magnificence of the
worship to which it is sacred. (Cheers.) Let the assen bly
open with the performance of the divine ceremonies of our re-
ligion. Letthe Venerable Archbishop of Dublin, whose meek
demeanour and truly apostolic countenance form so fine a con-
trast with the sacerdotal dippaucy of a certain giddy and self.
‘. sufficient Hierarch, ascend the pulpit, and, with the mild and
persuasive eloquence of which he is so accomplished a master,
inculcate a’ sense of the sacred obligation ¥ hich our country and
our God will have imposed upon us. How noble a spectacle will
be presented in that gorgeous and magnificent array. ‘The
Pontiffs of our ancient Chuch will appear in the first rank, in
the garment which signifies their sacred office ; next shall stand
the Catholic Peers of England, who, with the Earl Marshal at
their head, shoald be inviied to unite themselves with this great
convocation, After our illustrious visitors, the Peers of our
own country, with their eldest sons, should follow; next should
succeed the Baronets and chief Gentry of [reland, and the opu-
lent Merchants and Members of the several professions should
» he placed in their respective order of allocation. Let me ask
whether such an asscinbly would not be attended with signal
consequences? Would not its deliberations, heid underneath
the dome of a mighty temple, be attended with the most impres-
sive circumstances, and rivet the attention of the Empire? This
‘would, indeed, be a National Convention, not representing the
people, but being, in some measure, the people itself, and con-
taiaing the essence—the abstract—the very. core of the coun-
try. (Continued cheering.) This, my Lord, appears to me
most easy of accomplishment; and, indeed, I see no difficulties
atallin the way ofits achievement. Even if there were great
impediments, we should fearlessly and determinately encounter
them. Possunt quig posse ridéntur,” is a maxim founded in
the depth of our nature; for the conddence of success is almost
success itself. (Cheers.) When was any thing great, or no-
ble, or elevatest, acennrplished by men who made a nice caleula-
tion of feasibility 2 Did the great Carthagenian, when he ar-
‘rived at the foot of the Alps, draw forth his mathematical instru-
» ments, to measure the height of Mount-Bernard-above the
sea? (Loud cheers.) No: he rushed at once up the mountain,
* aad burst its rocks with the ardent spirit of his own fiery and
aspiring mind.’ Nothing, [repeat it, great or noble, was ever
achieved by minute calculators of difficulty ; and rightly was it
observed by Voltaire, that it is not so much high faculty as de-
termination of character, that achieves po! uct ther
were great obstacles in our progress—tiongh difficulties should
“be heaped upon each other, and “ Alps upon Alps arise,” we
+ should not be deterred from pursuing the steep and rugze
path which would lead to liberty. But, thank God, ‘the way
ical at
Thave, my Lord, expressed my ©} a, an
nethaps at too great a length, upon the question which involves
so muchof our interests. { thought it not inappropriate, that
as I conceived the Association should adjourn until November,
to suggest what [ regarded as the beat plan of future. action
which the Catholics conld adopt, distinguishing between the eb-
jects which it is legal on our parts as members of the Associa-
tion to pursue, and those ulterior ends for which we way pre-
pare the way, and which it be the province of a distiact As
sociatiun, founded upon a dierent principle, and of limited ex-
istence, to attain. In the prosecution of those objects the peo-
ple will lend us their strenuous co-operation, Never was the
popalar feeling raised to a greater beight—never did a nobler
, and more enthusiastic zeal exist among the people of Ireland.
Whatever our antagonists may say, the same deep determina-
tion to seek the liberty of the country, keeps its place in the na-
tion’s heart. From one extremity of Ireland to the other, the
same pulsation beats with a strong and regular throb. : Itis
not a mere feverish and trensitory exciiation, but the uniform
result of the great circulation of @ vital principle, and it may be
Justly said, in the language of the poet— :
“ Spiritus intus alit, totamqne infusa per artus
Mens agitat molem, et magno se corpore miscet.””
oO (Loud cheers.)
Mr. Robert Power seconded Mr. Shiel’s motion, which was
unanimously agreed to. .
ir, Corballis moved for the admission of Mr. Richard Cor-
ballis, which was unanimously agreed to.
ord Killeen proposed, as a member, Mr. Fitzgerald, of
Fanevalley, and observed, that though the objects of the Asso-
ciation were very limited. yet, the accomplishment of those
objects woald be most materially promoted by the co-opera-
tion of such members as Mr. Fizgerald,
Mr, Conway proposed, as a inember, a gentleman who had
not only been a member of the old association, but had, in his
place in Parliament, strenuously opposed its suppression, and
therefore was doubiy entitled to a grateful reception into the
ranks of the preseut society. Ele meant Mr. Richard Martin,
the member for Galway. .
The Hon. Mr. Presion seconded the admission of Mr. Martin,
which was unanimously agreed to. :
Mr, Redmond proposed the adwission of Mr. Dennis Red-
mond; and Mr. Forde, that of Slr, Kavanagh.
Mr. Dowell O'Reilly proposed, as meinbers, three clergymen,
two of them pa. priests, whoxe eal for religion and services
totheir fiocks, were gratcfally acknowledged in their parishes ;
and the third, a young preacher, who had received the blessing
of the widow and of the orphan, and the thanks of ail who 4
capable of appreciating the blessings of charity, He alluded to
the Rev. Mr. Wall, of St. Anue’s Parish, tie Rev, James Mar-
row, and the Rev. Mr. O'Connell. . Those geatlemen were ac-
cordingly admitted. : wot
ir. Lawless begged to call the attention of the meeting to
the noti otion which he intended to submit on that day
week, and which was gromided on the principles so € i
ana so eloquently ui his frignd Mv. Shiel. The meeting
eA
uuad heard the expedients suggested by Mr. Shiel.. For his
(Mr. Lawiess’s) part, he saw nothing of novelty ose mea-
sures, except the manucr in which they had been served up to
the anderstaudings of the ueeting in ihe bvilliant speech they
had just heard. {t had never beea insiunated ia the late discus-
sions, even by the bitterest and most bigotted enemies of the
Catholics, ant even by the Bishop of Chesier, or iy Lord Liver-
pool, or Lord Chancellor Elion, that the Catholics of Ireland
ely undnimous in the assertion of their right to
ad never been argued that the late Catholic
land; and how Mr.
Shiel could consider that the form of ar-
rangement he proposed could add to the effect of their suppli-
cations, or that by itthe people of Ireland would assume a more
powertal or impressive attitude, he (Mr. L.) was at a loss to
conceiye. All classes of the Catholics had invariably united
their entreaties for justice. To be sure, they did not meet in
all the dramatie pomp and pageantry so brilliantly delineated
by his friend Mr. 3hiel-
of God, arrayed in the
i—tbey did not assemble in the temple
wigs and gowns, aud all the other ca-
rofessional distinctions; bat they always met with
y lor liberty, and it had never been said that they
ere otherwise With regard to the census
spoken of by Mr. Shiel, he (Mr. L.) regarded that as a most
useful measure, and considered its accomplishment as essential
in order to refute the wilful mis-statements and deliberate false-
hoods of Mr, Leslie Foster. .
Mr Forde rose and assured the meeting, that there was no
‘ound for such a charge against Mr. Lesl e Foster. Although
he might differ in politics trom Mr. Lawless, there was not in
existence a more upright aod honourable man, or a man more
incapable of uttering an intentional falsehood. .
Mr, Lawless said, he was glad that even Mr, Leslie Foster
had on advocate in that room. He did not allude to Mr. Fos-
ter ia a private or personal capacity, but he had aright to speak
of bim as a public man, and he repeated, that in that charac-
ter Mr. Foster had been guilty of the most flagitious mis-state-
ments.
Mr. Forde again protested warmly against such language.—
He would not stand by, and hear Mr. Foster charged with fla-
gitious eonduet. : -_ ot
Mr. Lawless persevered in asserting his right to animadvert
upon the public conduct of Mr. Foster.
Mr. Forde called upon the chairman to decide whether Mr.
Lawless was in order or not
The Rev. Mr. L’Estrange, Mr. Conway, and other gentlemen
joined in caliing Mr. Fe :
Mr. Lawless said, he would cease to pursue any line of obser-
vation that might be hurtful to the personal feelings of any per-
sonal friend of Mr. Foster. (We understood Mr. Forde to dis-
claimany such feelings.) Fy (Mr. Lawless) knew nothing of
Mr. Foster as a private man, and kad no intention of casting
avy reflection upon him in that capacity. With regard to the
ceasus of the Catholic population alluded to by Me. Shiel, the
meeting were aware that the Association could recommend the
adoption of that measure only with a view to promote the ob-
jects of National Education, The expedients which Mr. Shiel
so strenuously urged for the adoption of the meeting, had no-
thing whatever of novelty inthem, The meetings of the Ca-
tholics of Ireland could not be rendered more unanimous or
more energetic than they had already been. But he (Mr. Law-
less) would take a new ground, and he trusted that he would be
supported by his countrymen, who could not fail to see the im-
portance of the measure he was about to suggest. It was that
the prayer for civil and religious liberty should be no longer the
prayer of the Catholics; but that they should unite their suppli-
cations with that numerous and important body, the Dissenters
of England, who laboured under equal disabilities with them.
selves. A most influential gentleman, connected with the Uni-
tarians of Englund, had already assured him (Mr. Lawless) that
at his dictate 100,000 English Dissenters would be ready to join
in the petition of their Irish Catholic fellow-sufterers. » Let their
cause, then, cease to be a peculiar cause: let it he no longer con-
fined to the Catholics of Jreland, but letthem unite with the E:
glish Dissenters in one cominon prayer for civil and religious li-
b
awless to orde!
2
‘The Rey. Mr. L’Estrange protested against the reception of a
notice of such a motioa as that contemplated by Mr. Lawless.
Mr. Lawless should recolieet that the New Association was not
apolitical body. (Hear.)’ It could not travel out of its charter.
e, Mr. L’Estrange, for his own part, might be very glad to join
with Mr. Lawless out of that room in singing any requisition
for the accomplishment of the proposed object; but he trusted
that Mr. Lawless. would see the impropriety of persevering in
such a motion under the circumstances. .
Mr. Lawless thought the objection made by Mr. L’Estrange
a most extraordinary one What! would the meeting refuse to
entertain his mot on the ground of its having a political ten-
dency, after listening with the utmost complacency to a speech
ofthree quarters of an hour's length from Mr. Shiel, recom-
mending a certain line of political conduct, laying down the
forins and ceremonies to be observed in their meetings to peti-
tion, prescribing their dilferent orders and stations, ordaining
that the Bishops were to assemble dramatically robed in their
canonicals; and the Lawyers in their caps and gowns, and so
forth? Was not this a political speech 1 And why should his,
Mr. Lawtess’s notice of a motion be objected to on that ground?
Mr. L'Esrrange explained, that whatever might have been the
object or rendeniey of Mr. Shiel’s speech, it could not commit
the Association. “Flad Mr. Shiel concluded with any motion or
notice that could have such a tendevey, he, My. L’Estrange,
would bave felt it his daty to oppose it in the same manner as
he opposed Mr. Lawless’s notice. *
Mr, Shiel said, with regard to the objection made by my dra-
matic friend, to the expedients which } have suggested, f shall
not dispute their novelty with him; but [ would suggest to him
that trial is all. (Laughter.) However, | am not aware that a
census of the Catholic population has ever yet been adopted. —
Neither am I conscious that the parishes have been inthe habit
of holding simultaneous meetings, But beg leave to explain,
that great part of what | said was spoken by me but as au indi-
vidual recommending certain expedients which struck me as be-
ing likely to prove advantageous to the people of Ireland. I
think it necessary to offer this explanation, lest our antagonists
shoald adopt the same view as that taken by iny friend, and say,
that even’ Mr. Lawiess was alarmed ‘at the nature of the nea-
sures proposed, : .
Mr. Lawless said he would withdraw his notice, but would
certainly start the subject at the next Aggregate Mecting.—
(Hear, hear.) . .
EDUCATION OF TIIE PEOPLE. '
The Rev. Mr, L’Estrange rose to move upon a notice given
by him, whieh had for its object the accomplishment of the se-
con, and one of the inmost important objects of the New Catho-
lie Association, namely, the devising a system of liberal and
noral education for the people of Iveland He regretted that
VOLT .
made by the encmies of the Catholi¢s, that the people of Ireland
were in a state of ignorance and superstition, and that the priest-
hood exerted themselves to perpetuate the spiritaal and mora?
debasement of their fiocks. He had asserted, without very ma-
ture deliberation or minute calculation, hut he was since borne to
out by the report of the Royat Commissioners in the assertion,
that while the Kildare-place Society boasted of affording instruc-
tion to 60 or 70,000 people, the Catholic Clergy actually edu-
cated‘udwards 300,000. (Hear hear.) * The duty, therefore,
did particularly devolve upon him of following up his assertion,
mn
would move, that a commiitee of seven gentlemen should be no-
minated, to report forthwith, the names of 31 efficient members peo.
to carry into effect the principal object of the New Catholic As- . ‘
sociation, namely, the providing a liberal and moral education
for the people of Ireland. It was unnecessary for him to revert
to the testimony given before the Royal Commission, which so
powerfully refuted the charges made against the Catholic clergy,
of being enemies to education, particularly when it was remem.
bered that this testimony was extorted against their will; for
muci evidence that would have told in favour of the Catholic
clergy was withheld.
Mr. Conway observed, that if Mr. L’Estrange would wait for
the appendix tothe report, he would find that he had overcharg-
ed his assertion. oe 4
Mr. L'Estrange said, that when he should sce that, he would ‘
be very happy to acknowledge his error. But even according
to the report of the conrmitice, it appeared manifest, that the
Catholic clergy were most anxious for the dissemination of learn-
ing. Need he refer to history for proofs of this anxiety on their
part in every age. If one were to travel through this country
and to see the remains of those venerable edifices which gave
education, not only to the. people of Ereland, but to distinguish-
ed foreigners also, did they not aford ample proof of the zeal of
the clergy, for the extension of liberal science, and wherever the
Catholic church had iniluence, the same efforts were made, and
the same effects observable. He, Mr. L’Estrange himself, saw
an instance of this, even in Spain, a country which, he regret-
ted, had not the blessing of a representative government and a
limited monarchy, a form of constitution, which he hoped soon .
i J e—even in despotic Spain,
support was given to establishments for diffusing education.’ He
need not travel into France, Staly, Germany, or traverse entire
urope, in search of illustrations to support his position. | In
urging this motion, he would take leave to allude to the exer-
tions made by the late Association since the time they had cail-
ed upon the Catholic clergy ; there had been no time consider
ed fit for even an enquiry into the state of education, When an
effort was made to induce the Kildare-street Street Society to re-
deem their pledge, to falfil their contract with the public, to ex~
tend the benefits of education to the Irish: people at large, and
not to let their system of education be contracted by any secta-
rian views—when these efforts failed, and the Society persever~
ed in their insiduous encroachment upon the religion of the peo-
ple, the Catholic clergy themselves, endeavoured to establish a
society for education, and they went so far as to send a message
to the Kildure-street Society by a Scotch Baronet, that they were
ready to join with the society, in making selections of those pa
sages in Scripture, which might be put equally in the hands of
Catholics and Protestants, but this overture wus rejected.» The
Catholic clergy then applied to government for aid, and he. Mr.
L’Estrange, was the person, through whom, the communicit-
tious with government were carried on.’ He had several inter-
views with Mr. Grant, and so strongly had the Kildare-street
people impressed his mind with the idea that the Catholic cler-
gy were inimical to education, that he was quite astoni
Mr, L’Estrange’s applying to him on the subject, and saidy “Is
it possible that the Catholic clergy are really desirous to join by
@ scheme for education.” He, .Mr. L’Estrange, then brought ‘ |
Mr. Grant a resolution by the clergy, at a meeting convened by?
Dr. Murray, proposing the appointment of a committee of eler-
gymen, who were to meet a committee to be appoiated by the x
laity, for the pucpose of forwarding the object in view. Pe
Grant then premised that if they should be abie to establish such '
a society, he, Mr. Grant, would use his best efforts to procure
aid from the government. Unfortunately, however, he, Mre
’Estrange was obliged to go out of the country, and the pro- |
mises of Government were forgotien. They collected subserip-
tions to the amount of 8001. three times the amount of what the i
Kildare-street Society could boast of in one year; but th - 5
forts were frustrated in consequence of the bad faith of govern-
ment, who instead of extending any aid to them, increased the |
3
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4
!
‘
1
rc
allowance to the Kildare-street Society, with a view, as he, Mr-
L’Estrange, very invch feared, to extinguish all atteapts to dil-
fuse education, without interfering with the religious opinions of
niost anxious for the fulfilment ofthe measure, and it was found
impossible to prosecute the design. But the moment that the
Association called upon the clergy, and the government saw that
an impression was likely to be produced by their interpositio
not only upon the Empire, but upon Europe, they then found it
expedient to grant a Royal Commission, wkhough they had be-
fore denied an enquiry. ‘That committee, he felt, bad done much
i
1
‘
good, even if it hud done no more than exposing the base anil
frightful abuses of the Charter Schools, —(Hear.)—~If it had on
ly confirmed his, Mr. L’Estrange’s assertion, that while the mt=
rits of the Kildare-street Society consisted in nothing more than
colleciing some books, the Catholic clergy were active and su¢-"
cessful in,extending the blessings of education throughout the
country. (Hear, hear.) Mr. L’Estrange concluded by movin
the appointment of the committee of seven, which was secondett
by Mr. Dowell O'Reilly, and carried unanimously, ©
The following gentlemen were appointed on the Committee:
Lord Gormanstown, Lord Killeen, Sit, Edward Bellew, the
Hon » Preston, Mr. Shiel, the Rev. Mr. L’Estrange, and Mr.
Mr. Conway moved, in pursuance of his. notice, that the As-
sociation, at its rising, should?’adjourn to the first Saturday ia
ovember. .
Lord Killeen seconded the motion of adjournment. :
Mr. Forde said, that the most valuable services of the Old A=" i
sociation were rendeved by it during its adjournment, by means :
ofan open commitiee. He would, therefore, recommrnd that
the same course should now be adopted, and an epen commit-
tee appointed ta conduct the business of the Association during j
its adjournment. ee . a
Mr. Conway’s motion of adjournment was then put aud cary
sv imporiaut a twatter uid bot fallen into abler hands; bat he.
Mr. L’Estrange, had, aa member of the late Association, ta’
octatioa did not represeut thus feelings of the Prelacy, Nobi-
Roeracy, the Ceutry, aud the Peugtte of Ire-
cn aa early opportunity of meeting and refating the asseytions
ried. : ;
‘The meeting then separated at half past gix o’eock