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58
gradation would be effaced, and the supercilious sen-
timent of superiority would be mitigated into the
feelings of brotherhood, and in the enjoyment of well-
‘regulated equality. . vo
There are, I think, six English Catholic Peers;
they would take their natural places in the House of
Lords, There are seven Irish Catholic Peers, two
Earls, three Viscounts, and two Barons, exclusive of
Nugent, Lord Riverston, whose title created by James
the Second, has not as yet been officially recognised.
If it were true that the Marquess of Wellesley has re-
commended that Emancipation should be followed by
the grant of three English Peerages to the two Earls
and! the. Premier Viscount of Ireland, -this, indced,
would be a wise as well as a most salutary measure,
and would make Emancipation a most gracious boon.
Is there a man, Catholic or Protestant, in the British
Empire, to whom these Noble Lords are known, that
would not rejoice at such a measure, But, at allevents
the barrier would be struck down, the exclusion would
cease, and the Catholic would no longer stand degra-
ded even by the inferiority cast on the highest and no-
blest families ofthe Catholic persuasion.‘ -
“ The House of Commons would be thrown open;
some fifteen or twenty Catholics would soon be found
_ within its walls, The number is not great; bat these
ersons would restrain unfounded reproach upon their
faith, and preserve from aggression all the individuals
who belong to their religious community, .
But the admission of Catholics into both Houses of
Parliament would do much more. It would naturally
and necessarily communicate a portion of the power
and of the patronage of the State to the Catholics.
"Those advantages in the army and navy, in the learn-
ed professions, and in civil offices, which now almost
exclusively belong to Protestants, would then be shared
in fair proportion of wealth and influence by the Ca-
tholics. Who is the man that can calculate the ex-
tent of the advantages which such a change must
bring with it to the Catholics? -Is there any office,
from the highest to the lowest, that will not be open
to Catholic interest and Catholic ambition? Look at
the present state of the Police! Could it remain in its
present position of hostility to Catholics after Eman-
cipation?—Impossible. How many sons of Catholic
farmers, and how many’ Catholic peasants would find
employment in the police, and in the collection of the
Public Revenue, and of local taxation, as soon as there
existed a fair share of Catholic Parliamentary patron-
age. Are they not at present practically excluded
trom those situations?
It is quite unnecessary to dwell on the manifold ad-
vantages of having Catholics in Parliament; but we
should not forget, that Catholic charities are, at pre-
sent, in an anomalous and precarious state; that we
want laws to enable us,with security, to build chapels
and schools—to maintain orphanage houses, hospitals,
and widows alms-houses; that we cannot, without
great and often encreasing difficulties, provide for the
decent celebration of our worship, or the education
of our priesthood; that the property of our convents,
especially the female convents, is at present placed in
w state insecured and unsatisfactory; that our poor
.- are precluded from sharing in many a charitable do-
nation by the terror excited by the present system ;—
in short, that ‘every species of Catholic charity re-
quires legislative protection, which could be effectu-
ally given to it only by there being some Catholic Le-
gislators, who understood the subject in all its bear-
ings, and would be enabled to communicate to Par-
liament authentic information and satisfactory modes
of regulation and protection. . :
Besides, the property of the Catholics is at present
inconsiderable jeopardy. The penal laws are all still
in force. The Emancipation Bill have hitherto qua-
lified not repealed, the penal statutes; and such qua-
lification has been but conditional. The proofs of
the performance of the conditions are precarious, and
necessarily perishing. Protestants occasionally, and
Catholics constantly, are exposed to ‘peril on this ac-
count. It would require some Catholic Members of
Parliament of competent skill, to stop the progress of
a mischief which is calculated daily to encrease.
Again, the Catholics at present suffer much from
heing excluded from interfering with the taxation of
Parish Vestries—the expenditure of Parish Monies~
the compulsion to act as Churchwardens, and: from
many other local grievances, which a few skilful and
intelligent Catholic members of Parliament would soon
find the means so to mode land arrange as to relieve
the Catholics from oppression, without injuring or in-
fringing on the real aud just rights of the Protestants.
Add to all these precious advantages, the change in
the tone and temper of society, which would necessa-
ily follow from having Catholics in the Legislature:
of practical good which would result to the Irish peo-
yc Tenth Tellier.
plo at large, from the Catholics having a due share in
the legislation of the empire. :
I must close this letter with this brief summary of
the evils we suffer, from being excluded from all share
in making laws. 1 will begin. my next letter, by
pointing out the misery that now tlows from our be-
ing excluded from our due proportion of the adminis-
tering the laws 3 and of the happy results which must
flow from permitting the Catholics to participate, as
well iz the administration of the laws, as in the power
of legislation. _ DANIEL O’CONNELL,
SELECT COMMITTEE ON THE
‘ ‘STATE OF IRELAND... |
+ o> wot . .
THE RIGHT REV. JAMES DOYLE, D. D. TITULAR
BISHOP OF KILDARE AND LEIGHLIN.
. (Continued from our last.) - t
You hold, that the same power still resides in the King, if that
King happened to be a Catholic, but that during the sovereign-
ty of a Protestant Monarch, such power is extinct.—It is aright,
Tike all others; whether we call it a right derived from the Jaw,
or aright derived from usage or compact, which ceases by dis-,
use; and if, by a supposition, which is merely possible,,the King
upon the throne to be a Catholic, Ido not think that thereby
this right, formerly residing in his predecessors being Catholics,
ould accrue to him; I think it has been lost by disuse, but it is
aright hewever, which a Catholic Sovereign could easily obtain
by treating with the Pope.
Was the right of appointing to the Roman Catholic Bishoprics
james the Second
accession of the Stuarts.
I should refer to the history of the Church, at that particular pe-
riod; and. without doing so, I might fall into an error; but Lam
quite confident the right resided in him, and I should have no
hesitation in saying, that it was exercised by him in more instan-
ces than one. . . .
Do you think it was exercised by James the Second before
his arrival in Ireland 7—Yes ; during the entire of his reign.
From the period of his accession ?—From the period ‘of his
accession till the time of his expulsion from Ireland.
He was at that time head of the Church of England !—He
might also have a right to present to the Sees of the Church in
Ireland; but he would not become the head of our Church, by
aving a right to direct the Chapter to elect a certain individual
to be instituted as Bishop by the Pope.
After his abdication, do you think he exercised practically
that right, whicli the Catholic Church still admitted to reside in
him ?—1 am sure, after his abdication, or his expulsion fro
those countries, that he did recommend, whilst in France, indi-
viduals to the Pope, which individuals were appointed to Bish-
opries in Ireland; and not only he, but his son after him.
could name—but I should rather not, unless the Committee re-
quired it—I could name the last Bishop who was appointed by
the Pope to a See in Ireland, at the express recommendation of
the late Pretender. . .
In making that arrangement for domestic appointment, would
you contemplate the election of the Roman Catholic Prelate,
upon the occurrence of a vacancy, by the Clergy belonging to
the Diocese, to the appointment of which he might be a eandi-
date ?—I would contemplate such election to be made by a cer-
tain portion of the Clergy of the Diocese in which such vacancy
occurred; but I would also require the concurrence of the me-
tropolitan and suffragan Bishops of the province in which such
vacancy happened to exist. 1 would beg to explain myself;
fear I cannot do it as satisfactorily as 1 could wish.
not like that the election to a vacant See should rest with the
metropolitan and suffragan Bishops of the diocese alone, nor
would I like that it should be vested in the Clergy of the vacant
diocese, to the exclusion of the metropolitan and suffragan Bish-
ops; but I would desire that such election should originate with
a certain class of the Clergy of the vacant diocese, aad that be-
fore it would be sent forward to the Court of Rome, the metro-
politan and suffragan Bishops should have concurrence in it in
a certain way. . . .
Would you think it advisable, under that arrangement, to re-
tain the office of Coadjytor to the Bishop ?—That could be done
if, by the arrangement, the Coadjutor should be elected in the
same manner as the Bishop, on the vacancy of the See. ©
What would be the nature of the claim which, under this ar-
Re
Co g0, “We appoint you bishop of such a
place, in partibus,” as we call it (that is, in some country where
Christianity once flourished, but where infidelity now prevails,)
cum jure successionis; so that his election to the coadjutorship
would secure to him the: succession, upon’ the demise of the
person to whom he would be appointed coadjutor, rose
Are the Coadjutors at present Bishops in partibus fidelium ?
—They are, but with the right of succession. .
Supposing, after the election of a Coadjutor, it should so hap-
pen, in some individual case, that the coadjutor should miscon-
duct himself, and that to such a degree, that in the opinion of
the original electors he should be unfit for the Prelacy, woul
his right of succession still be absolute, or without any controul
on their part ?—Kt would be without any controul on their part,
but if he commmitted a canonical fault, he could be tried for it
and be removed from his right of succession, and he could be
removed from his See.
Where would the trial take place ?—The trial of a Bishop is
ne of the causa majores mentioned in the Council of Sardis, and
should be referred to the See of Rome. -That Council was held
some thirty or more years after the first Council of Nice, and it
decreed that the cause majores should not be definitively settled
without the concurrence of the Pope, whenever such concur-
ence was thought necessary by any of the parties which hap-
VOL.[. .
yer held, he can appeal from the Metropolitan directly to the
Pope ; and that usage has obtained in the Catholic Church from.
the beginning, and was decreed at Sardis, a little after the mid-
dle of the fourth century, and still holds good.
Then the evidence by whicl:the person in that situation would
be affected, would be remitted from Ireland to Rome?—Yes..
Would the evidence taken upon oath?—The evidence
would be taken upon oath.. ‘ vo :
a party summoned before the Tribunal of the First
Instance, if it may be so called, the Tribunal existing in Ireland,
refused to take an oath, would the proceedings be suspended ?—
In cases of that kind we have no remedy, we are obliged to call
in a Magistrate, and request of him to administer an oath to the
witness whom we wish to examine, and when he has done so,
the witness is interrogated either through the Magistrate or by
one of us.
__ Supposing the witness were a member of the Roman Catholic
Church, would he be subjected to any ecclesiastical censure for
demurring to the jurisdiction of the Court }—~As to a censure,.E
cannot say he would; butthere is some remedy, there are some:
means whereby a witness ean be obliged to give testimony in a
Bishop’s Court—what it is} as settled by the law and usage of
the Catholic Church, I do not at present recollect.
efore any arrangement, which provided for the domestic
appointment of the Koman Catholic Prelates in Ireland,: could
be carried into full effect, would the consent of the See of Rome
be necesssary ?—Undoubtedly it would—because the See of
Rome at present has the right to appoint, and any modification
of that right could not of course be made without the concur-.
rence of the See of Rome. .
You would still propose to reserve the institution of the Bishops
to the See of Rome ?!—Without it, he could not be a Bishop in
our Church: he could. not exercise any jurisdiction whatever
unless he received institution from the Pope. ©
By reserving the institution to the Pope, the Pope would still
retain a discretionary power to reject the Bishop who had been
recommended to him in virtue of the domestic arrangement—
would he not 7—The domestic arrangement would be one where-
by the Pope would bind himself, through a treaty, to give insti-
tution to such fit person as would be canonically elected by the
persons named in such a treaty. se there was a concor-
dat, enabling certain persons in Ireland to elect a Bishop to a
vacant See, the Pope by agreeing to such a concordat, engages
to give institution to all persons who may hereafter be elected
by such electors as are therein defined, provided the person
elected possesses the necessary qualifications for a Bishop, aud
be duly elected. wa ~
Supposing the receipt of a provision from the State were
accompanied, as it must be, by an abandonment of any claim
upon the parishoners, would it be possible to abandon that
claim upon the parishoners without the consent of the Pope ?—
Certainly it would, : of
You say the fees upon baptism and upon marriage, now pay
able to the Priests of the Roman Catholic Church, could be
abandoned by them without the previous consent of the Pope ?
—They can be abandoned by them without the consent of the
Pope, but there are offerings made at marriages, baptisins, aud
at the burial of the dead, which are a usage of the Church so
ancient, that I do think the Clergy would not resign them; those
at present are much higher than they need be, and though they
are called voluntary, they are not, strictly speaking, so; those
however, are not the only or the principal dues or contributions
by which the Clergy are supported; there are other contribu-
tions, given individually by the parishioners, which constitute
the chief support of the Priesthood. The contributions of this
latter kind could be given up by the Clergy, without consulting
ny one, and even the voluntary oblations at marriages aud
baptisms could, in my opinion, be relinquished by them ; but
those latter, I think, they would not relinquish, because they ares
as old as Christianity itself, and they exist in every Church of
whatever kind, in every nation with which I happen to be ac-
quainted. But the other dues, the individual contributions from
the parishioners af stated times of the year, could be given up;
it would be desiralfle that they should be given up, and the Cler-
gy might give thei up without any reference or commmuntca~
tion whatever upon the subject with Rome. :
You do not think it would be desirable, in any event, to remit
altogether the fees upon the performance of the rites of the
hurch?—Upon all rites of the Church, except baptisms, mar:
riages, and the burial of the dead. :
‘Those you would retain ?—-Those J would retain, because they
are a universal custom; andI do not see why our Church should
be the only one in the world that would give up trifling contri-
butions, which are given in every other Church throughout Chris-
tendom. :
By what authority are those contributions, of which you last
spoke—namely, the fees upon the ceremonies of marriage and
baptism—regulat: i uu
a
tributions existing generally; but there was no uniform rule,
whereby they could be regulated; and I thought it better for the
poor, and also I thought I should best consult the character and
interests of the Clergy, by reducing them, in some degree, to
rule, I therefore regulated what they should be in most. cases,
and the manner in which they should be collected; in order also
to prevent any thing like harsh treatment of the poor by the
Clergy, I prohibited under pain of suspension, any Clergyman
rom withholding his ministry from any person, rich or poor,
on account of dues or emoluments; so that the office of the Priest
must first be discharged, and then the individual gives what is
prescribed by usage or by the letter of the Statute.
' The payment in all the parishes in the dioceses of which you
are the Roman Catholic Prelate is uniform ?—I may say it is
uniform; there may be some deviations from it, but they are
ery few, .
<
hh amount is it uniform ?—When IJ say uniform, I should say
there is a kind of scale, because the poor man pays nothing, the
man in better circumstances pays something, and the man whose‘
condition is still more improved, gives a little more. :
Iftemporalities (by which is meant a pecuniary provision pay-
vble by the Crown) were attached to Roman Catholic Sees, and
to Roman Catholic Parishes in Ireland, would it be inconsistent
with the doctrine or discipline of the Roman Catholic, Church
to admit any interference onthe part of the Protestant Sover-
eign of this’ country inv the appointments?—It would be incon-
sistent with the discipline of the Roman Catholic Church to ad-
mit, in such cases, the interference of a Protestant Sovereign in
such appointments. ‘
Vould that arrangement, in your opinion, be inconsistent with
the discipline of the Roman Catholic Church, even if it had the
sanction of the Pope 1—Were he to give his sanctiop to it, l think