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TRUTH IS POWERFUL,
AND 'WILL PREVAIL.
my VOLO
BRITISH HOUSE OF COMMONS.
' CATHOLIC EDUCATION. :
Mr. J, SMITH said that he was extremely anxious to call
ibe attention of the House toa petition, which he had for pre-
sentation, from the Catholics of Ireland, |The petition was nu-
merously signed, it was agreed to at an aggregate meeting, and
i it was supposed to represent fairly the opinions of .the whole
I. body of the Catholics. In entering into a short detail of the
i grievances which the petitioners detailed, he was only. dis-
charging a duty to which he was called, and which was grate-
ful to himself. ‘The petitioners stated that the education of the
poor of Ireland of the Catholic communion was not attended
to, Before the time of the Reformation in Ireland, the pro-
perty of the Clergy was in great part applied to the education
and support of the poor. Since that period the property went
into the hands of the Protestant clergy, and the poor derived
no benefit from it. | Hé was sorry to find that the petitioners
expressed their dissatisfaction with the recommendation of the
Commission, for in his own opinion the Commissioners per-
. formed their duty in an excellent manner. But it appeared
that they recommended that Protestants and Catholics should
be educated together. The petitioners disapproved of ,that—
they consulted their Bishops, and they said that if Catholics
and Protestants were to be educated together, there’ should be
Catholic assixtants as well as books, to be approved by,the Ca-
tholic Bishops, . The petitioners objected, very properly, in his
opinion, to put any books into the hands of Catholic children,
‘ but such books as were approved by their Bishops, and by the
q Catholics in general. . The petitioners further complained that
t Government gave grants of money ‘to societies in Ireland for
the purposés 6f education, but that the object of these socie-
ties was not to educate, but to make proselytes. . The petition-
er§ were not singular in that opinion. He himself, for one, was
irmly of opinion that there were societies in Ireland, which,
“under pretence of educating the poor, directed all their endea-
yours to make proselytes ; and he’ believed that the Kildare.
place Society was not entirely free from that imputation. He
contended that there was nothing more unjust or more intole=
“rant: than to compel people to read books which they did not
like Mr. S. then called the attention of the House to the tole-
ration that was afforded to dissenting’ sects under other Go-
vernmentsdn Europe, and particularly that of France. » Inall
the schools, in which Jews, a class formerly persecuted by all
governments, were admitted—no books were put, into ‘their
hands but such as were approved of. by the Consistory and
Rabbi. The principles of common sense, as well as of tolera-
tion, should teach us to assist in the education of the Jrish poor,
in such a way as was not repugnant to their own feeling. He
was satisficd that there were persons employed by those soci-
eties in Ireland to make converts to the Protestant religion, i
«
io
the East, and in the West, and in all parts. Now, what was
the course these persons pursued 7, They began by insinuating
themselves into the confidence of the poor people, by teaching
them and assisting them in their husbandry works, and having
gained their confidence and sympathies, they then assailed
them in point of religion, . It was no wonder that the people
were inclined to distrust these Missionaries. It was most un-
fortunate to the Protestant interest in Ireland that all these cir-
cumstances conspired to alienate the affections of the Jrish peo-
ple. Among other benefits for which the House was indebted
to the Commissioners of Education Inquiry, was the examina-
tion of Captain Gordon, a man for whom he entertained high
2 respect... Jn Lis examination before the Commissioners, he was
fi asked if it was the intention of the Society to which he lent his
on assistance, to convert the people, “* No, (replied Captain G.)
but to teach them veritable Christianity.” (A laugh.) .The
Hon. Member having read another question and answer, of
©aptain Gordon's examination, said that practices like these
tended to the disturbance of the public peace in ‘Ireland ; and
the House ought not to vote one shilling of the public money to
those societies, unless they really meant to proselytize the peo-
ple of Ireland. .. The petitioners, with the greatest anxiety and
earnestness, prayed thatthe children of different communions
might not be mixed, together in the same schools, The peti-
tionets complained most bitterly of the conduct of these soci-
cties in Freland, and they-prayed the House ‘to grant farther
t supplies of money for education in. Ireland, only on the condi-
tions stated by their bishops—that was, to each persuasion in
such shares as seeined fit to the House. From the Report of
[ducation Inquiry Commissioners, it appeared that the whole
number of children receiving education in Ireland was 560,075.
Of these 421,415 were Roman Catholic children, and -only
31,068 of them were educated by these societies’ schools, “Ihe
. remaining 390,000 were educated at the expense of their pa-
. rents and friends; and these were a people, the Liouse was in-
formed, opposed to education, (Hear, hear.) ‘The Hon. Mem-
..* ber then drew an affecting picture of the state of an uneduca-
> ted people, and said that the great numbers who came over to
inundate this country yearly, showed the necessity of paying
more attention to the education of the poorer people of Ireland.
J.et the people educate their children. as they liked—all who
were educated, whether Protestant or Catholic, hada protec
“tion against falling into the crimes into which” the ‘ferocity of
¢
& af
NEW-YORK, SATURDAY, JULY 15, 1826.
an uneducated people was sure to lead them. He was not d's:
posed to delay the House, but if he had time, he could, from a
paper put into his hands, detail some very curious facts.
very curious fact was this—which was as well authenticated as
any other historical fact—that the people of England were in-
debted to the. people of Ireland for their-learning and educa-
tion. ‘This was a well authenticated historical fact, and it was
as such he mentioned it,’ The -first:learning of England was
imparted by the then learned men of Ireland... He begged leave
ta bring up the Petition, and he recommended it to the attention
of the House, and particularly to the: Right. Ilon- Gentleman
(Mr. Goulburn.) 5
Mr. BUTTERWORTH said that the reasoning of the pe-
titioners would equally apply to the disciples of Som Paine.
That Honse was not authorised to educate the people in doc-
trines opposed to the Holy Scriptures. ‘This indifference to
the Scriptures was the cause of all the evils of Ireland. It was
not the, people of Jreland that was opposed to education—it
was the Priests of Iveland who opposed themselves to the edu-
cation of the people. ‘Had it not been for the meddling and
busy interference of those Priests, education would have made
great progress among the poor in Ireland.” If the Bible was
to be abandoned, the Cranmers and Latimers were sacrificed
in vain, It was for this book of truthy that they shed their
blood. The Priests complained that they were not able to
educate the poor Catholics from the want of money. But where
were ail their boasts of being able to raise £1000 a-month? or
of what description was their benevolence, if, having the money
in their hands, they applied it otherwise than in forwarding
the education of the people ?> Tie Priests say, they labour in.
cessantly, as far as their means will permit, in educating the
poor; but cui beno? ey have been at it for ages, and what
good have they done? Compare the state of Ireland at this
day, with that of Scotland—what a voiume does the contrast
speak on the subject! In Scotland, the Bible is the manual of
education. In Ireland, the Priests’ -missal, One country de-
velopes a race of. men, moral, religious, obedient, good citi-
zens, and good subjects—the other a community, whose law is
an almost systematic violation of all law. Could it possibly be
otherwise? , Darkness wil] never enlighten, whereas light can
never mislead. The sacred Scriptures are the source of light,
exhibiting at. once the finest precepts of, morality, and incul-
cating ‘the most tender charity, by fixing our minds upon the
inexhaustible goodness of God. They recommend obedience
to temporal laws, and enforce that obedience by the most pow-
erful incentives, ‘That education then, which rests itself upon
this sacred book, must be the best, and no other ought to be
supported. It is monstrous in the Priests, to be asking at the
hands of the State, money for the avowed purpose of dissemi-
nating and upholding a creed decried by the State. Much had
been said of proselyting. Ile was not ashamed to say that he
was a friend to proselytism! But why was this proselytism so
much objected to?, Was it not the reclaiming of persons from
ignorance and barbarism, to truth ? Was there any harm in
this—or could any’ persons be blamed who laboured for the
spiritual good of others? He was decidedly opposed to pat-
ting the Bible, as translated by the Priests, into the hands of
the Catholic children in Jreland. He did not blush to say,
that in a matter of this moment, he was no advocate fora false
liberality.. No word was more mistaken than this. The ruin
of France was brought about by infidelity, which had its ovi-
gin in liberality. On all these grounds he was adverse to the
prayer of the petition, :
Mr. WILLIAM SMITH said that no man in that House dif-
fered more widely from the Roman Catholics than he did,
The exclusive education contended for was the system of the
Priests before the Reformation, and if it had been acted upon
up to this time, this country would have been still Catholic.
The safest and best way was to leave every person to the ex-
ercise of their religions opinions in their'own manner, and Jet
the state watch over their actions, For: his part, so great a]”
friend was he to the dissemination of edacation amongst the
people of Ireland, that he would be glad to see them educated
in the (principles of the Roman Catholie religion rather than
left in total darkness. yt .
Mr. CARUS WILSON declared himself hostile to any sys-
tem of education in Ireland. which was not founded upon the
Scriptures. set Bayt
Colonel TRENCIT said, he was always slow in detracting
from the merits of any set of men whose objects were un-
doubtedly good. He was, however, bound to say of the en-
thusiasts of Ireland, that their proceedings were not only
injudicious, but mischievous. It was-a wrong policy to with-
hold education from people who had no appetite for it. He
assured the jlouse, that if the people of. Ireland were not fed
with: wholesome food, they would prey upon garbage. ..The
great enemies of education in Ireland were the enthusiasts.
Were it not for that mischievous party, which had been agi-
tating Ireland for two years, no division would have existed,
and instead of hatred and hostility, the education of both Ca-
tholics and Protestants would have gone on harmoniously to-
gether, and the maxims of the Christian religion, would bave
been equally adopted as their common creed . ‘i
Mr. FITZGERALD said, that it seemed as if the Hon.
Member from Dever, anticipating that the petition would have
‘
NO. 28,
been couched in violent language, had come down prepared to
indulge in rancorous and acrimonious feeling ; but be anust
now find how mistaken were his anticipations, for no petition
could be more moderate, or give less room for the hostile feel.
ing which that Hon. Member exhibited to-night. If both par-
ties, Catholics and Protestants, had been left upon the same
harmonious footing upon which they formerly stood, and had
not been interfered with by a busy intermeddling sect Of sec-
tarians, who were spread through the lahd for the purpose of
detaching families from their ancient faith, none of those angry
feelings which were now complained of would have beeu heard
Attacks were made on the Catholic Clergy for their indis-
position to educate their flocks; but he did not hesitate to say «
that the Clergy, out of their scanty means, educated a greater -
number than the State, with all its exuberant liberality, The
sectarians evinced a dislike of Popery, but he did not. know
4
that their hatred of Popery was not'allied to their hatred of* » .
Episcopacy, and that, in their outrageous zeal, while they
destroyed Popery, they would be as réady ‘to pull down the’
Established Church. : ‘
Mr, J. SMITH, in reply, said that all tbe petitioners claimed -’
was a right which all might be allowed to exercise—that they
should be permitted to put what books they pleased in the
hands of their children for tho purposes ef education.
Mr. BUTTERWORTH observed,..in. explanation, that
though the priesthood might now appear to encourage educa-
tion, they_remained dormant, ignorance being better suited to
their views, till they were roused by the efforts of others to
educate the Catholic people; but he looked upon their inter-
ference as mischievous, and the cause of all the angry feeling
which existed on the subject of education. [a the discussion ~
at Carlow, the priests had a signal, known to the mob, upon
exhibiting which, they rushed upon tbe scaffold, and put their °
opponents to flight, (Some Member said, No.) 1 say yes,
and am ready to prove it., The Right Hon. Gentleman, the ‘
Member from Kerry, alluded to sectarianism, -bat for himself |
he would say, that he was a member of the Establishment, and
a friend to Episcopacy, though he was also a friend to other
sects, If the Right Hon, Gentleman wished for information
upon Episcopacy, he should apply to the Ion. Member for -
Norwich (Mr, W. Smith. us .
Sir J. NEWPORT said the assertion made by the Hon. ©
Member who had just set down, respecting the conduct of the “
Priests at the Carlow meeting, was entirely unfounded. ' Col,
Rochfort, who had presided on that day, had contradicted the
whole. statement in his evidence before a Committee of the ’
Ilouse of Commons. _ It was no tenet of the Roman Catholic
religion to exclude the Bible from the people. The Catholic
Clergy only objected to circulate without note or comment,
and in this opinion many of the most dignified members of the
Established Church coincided... They were averse to the dis-
tribution of the Scriptures, unless accompanied with the ca-
thecism for the instruction of the younger classes of the cotn- "
munity.. It was extremely illiberal, and unjust for any indivi-~
dual to be attributing to the Roman Catholics principles and *
opinions which they had so often and so solemnly disavowed. *
The petition was ordered to lie on the table.
CANONIZATION OF SAINT BUTTERWORTH,
“A christian of the best edition.”—Rabelais
Canonize him !—yea, verily, we'll canonize him;
Though cant is his hobby, and meddling his bliss, _
Though sages may pity, and wits may despise him, -
lie’ll ne’er make a bit the worse saint for all this.
Descend all ye spirits that ever yet spread
‘The dominion of humbug o'er land and o’er sea,
Descend on our B—tt—rw—ith’s biblical head,
Thrice great Bibliopolist, Saint, and M, P.!
Come, shade of Joanna, come down from thy sphere,
And bring little Shiloh—if 'tisn’t too far—
Such a sight will to B—tt—rw—th’s bosom be dear, :
His conceptions and thine being much on a par. _ 5
Nor blush, Saint Joanna, once more to behold .
A world thou hast honour’d by cheating so many: *
Thovu'lt find still among us one personage old, | *
Who also by tricks and the Seals" make a penny, | ~
Thou too, of the Shakers, divine Mother Lee! t .
Thy smiles to beatified B—tt—rw—rth deign;
Two “lights of the Gentiles” are thou, Anne, and he,
Once hallowing Fleet-street, and fother Toad-lane !t
Stand forth, man of bibles !—not Mahomet’s pigeon, -
When perch’d on the Koran, he dropp'd there, they say
Strong marks ofhis faith ever shed o'er religion _
-- Such glory as B—tt—rw—th sheds every days . weve
+ * A great part of the income of Joanna Southcott arose from the Seats
of the LORD’s protection which she sold to her followers. [
s. Ano Lee, the “ chosen vessel” of the Shakers, and“ Mother of atl
the children of regeneration~’ . . * os
*t Troad-lane, in Manchester, where Mother Lee was born, In her “ Ad-
Uress to Youn, jicvers,” she says, that “itis a matter of no importance
with them from whence the means of their deliverance come, whether
from a stable in Bethlehem, or from Tuad-lane, Manchester.” SS
4 ‘ . ‘